(Bernard) - Why didn't you ask for help?
(Chinhae) - Very busy with work, have memory issues, don't have a lot of time at home.
(Kate) - The first time it happened, we directed you to turn the water shutoff valve to “off”, but it continued to leak for a week, at which point you put a bucket to catch the leak.
(Beryl) - When maintenance went to check, after Diana reported the issue, towels were on the floor already.
(Chinhae) - Thought the issue was the drain, which is why towels were down already.
(Beryl) - Why didn't you contact maintenance when you discovered the leak?
(Chinhae) - I was starting a new job, and had issues with memory.
(Ivy) - You live with another person whom you could have asked to contact maintenance on your behalf. If there's a consistent, ongoing maintenance issue in your apartment, part of the contract you signed as a member means you owe it to contact maintenance if you notice any issue. We are already dealing with expensive, ongoing maintenance problems, and this is the type of thing that we might have to pay a lot of money to outsource labor to fix the issue.
(Joy) - The first time this happened, was there damage that needed to be repaired?
(Corey) - No; it was on the first floor.
(Ivy) - When we noticed it was leaking, we made a point to stop using it until it could be fixed.
(Joy) - Was anyone alerted when the 102 dishwasher was installed?
(Chinhae) - I asked for help from Kate and Corey in getting it installed.
(Joy) - Do we have an estimate for the cost of the current issue?
(Kate) - Roberto came by after the initial leak, when it was first turned off, and it didn't seem like it would be a big expense, but then the leak continued and saturated the subfloor. We don't yet have an estimate currently. Our unit smells mildew-y along the adjoining wall.
(Angelia) - the 109 bathroom and kitchen also smell mildew-y.
(Diana) - My apartment was affected. Thank you for expressing you're sorry. I don't guess you had any way of knowing. Water came down the whole kitchen wall, seeped out from under the wall and onto the floor, and coming up through the floor tiles. The kitchen was unusable for a while. When I noticed there was water in the light fixture there, we had to turn the power off. When Corey took the light fixture out, globs of wet sheetrock fell out. This was when we were trying to figure out where the water was coming from. I saw you with towels and you mentioned you had a dishwasher that was leaking, and asked Corey if that could be part of the problem. That's how we became aware. My kitchen is still not completely fixed. When you get a lot of water in your house, you have to worry about mold. The whole kitchen floor will need to be grouted.
(Lorenzo) - I imagine Chinhae already knows about mold and water.
(Angelia) - Regardless of anything else, maintenance needed to know about the dishwasher and the leak, and now there's property damage, and I'm pretty sure there's something about that in the contract. I think that's a really big issue.
(Bernard) - I understand the memory loss, but I have an issue with the fact that the first time it happened, you asked Corey, but this time, you informed no one, but you ordered [the dishwasher] and knew it was coming on a certain day. My issue is that lives have been affected because the issue was not dealt with.
(Corey) - There's lots of different kinds of leaks. Some can skate by without being discovered for a while. All I did was walk into the kitchen and I could smell the wet smell, and I saw a stream, not a drip, coming out in the kitchen. It was clearly not okay, and it went on for a week. I strongly believe you should not do plumbing work here.
(Frog) - I don't know if I trust that Chinhae and Phoenix would adhere to a behavior contract. An example would be: Don't do maintenance/plumbing work in your apt, tell maintenance if there's an issue, don't use maintenance supplies without maintenance team's knowledge.
(Richard) - Question for Frog: How likely is it that they would get another large appliance?
(Frog) - The behavior contract would apply to other maintenance/plumbing issues.
(Ivy) - Given what I know, they will adhere to a behavior contract to the letter until it expires, but once it expires, they will find a way in spirit to act outside of the contract. They will carefully toe the line of what is not a violation of that behavior contract. I don't think someone who has that approach, and has had that approach in other aspects, has a place at this co-op.
(Reyna) - If we do have a contract, there would have to be a financial element; there has to be a limit to the amount of damage you can do to the co-op property.
(Corey) - Other issues that have not already been discussed, but this is the worst and most damaging one.
(Bernard) - They are already using disability and memory loss - I don't want to go through a drawn-out process that skates that line. This didn't just damage their apartment, but others as well. I don't see them being able to financially replace anything personally. What's to say they won't use other techniques to get around a contract.
(Corey) - We've had people before who like to take upon themselves certain tasks. Our building is very old and has unique caveats. It's plumbing this time, but if for example next time it's electrical, or something else, there's a reason people who don't know what they're doing should not do those things. We can try to be broad with it, but then it's not specific.
(Richard) - If there's a financial aspect to the behavior contract, and they can't meet it, does that then entail termination of membership?
(Corey) - If it's enumerated, then it would probably look like a payment plan. We don't know the financial scope yet, or what a reasonable timeline is for repayment.
(Diana) - I didn't know this was the second instance of this happening. I feel like if we vote for eviction, the odds of getting any money for reimbursement are slim.
(Joy) - I would say slim either way.
(Bernard) - We don't know the extent of the damage yet.
(Kate & Corey) - Probably under $10,000.
(Bernard) - I don't see them paying it.
(Frog) - That's damages we have to pay either way, and yes we might get it back very slowly if we put them on a behavior contract, but we have to determine how much is fair to tack onto their rent. Double rent would be kind of crazy, but with thousands of dollars of damage, we'd have to wait for like 2.5 years to get it all back.
(Echo) - Are they up on rent or on a payment plan? What are the logistics of defining repayment - would it be contingent on the extent of the damages?
(Kate) - Don't believe they were on a payment plan.
(Joy) - Tiff isn't here.
(Nynke) - Doing a behavior contract would give them the opportunity to cause more damages, and we've determined that this is a pattern of behavior.
(Ivy) - I don't feel confident that upon the behavior contract ending, they would then inform maintenance about any further issues they try to fix. Having lived with them before, I don't want them to live here anymore. To me, they have not earned another chance to pay us back.
(Frog) - That's sort of at the core of my responses, because one of the reasons I believe they will not adhere to a behavior contract or not revert once it's over, is because I don't think Gash has shown any awareness of “damn, I really screwed it”.
(Diana) - Do we have insurance coverage for things like that?
(Corey) - We have liability insurance.
(Kate) - NASCO is our insurance, and we get a lot of our maintenance funds from NASCO, but basically - not really. It will come out of our maintenance budget.
(Diana) - I have rental insurance, but it only covers my possessions.
(Bernard) - Bouncing off what Corey said, in my mind, if we do this, what other damage can come from this if they continue to do stuff they shouldn't be doing, because they think they can do it. We don't want to wake up to the place in flames. Hazard is one of my concerns because of this neglect. Not asking permission, not getting help. I don't want to see anyone getting hurt because of something like that.
(Corey) - Regardless, I genuinely feel like we need to inspect that unit to see if anything else has been done in it. The leak was very obvious and clear, and I don't trust the judgment of someone who fucks up that badly to check their work, and I don't know what they've done. I think we need to look into that, and we've lost the benefit of the doubt.